In our latest episode of App Talks, David Murphy spoke with David Quinn, VP of Strategy and Partnerships at Gummicube, to discuss the role of paid campaigns in boosting ASO performance.
[Q] A lot of people have different ideas of what ASO actually is. Maybe we could start with your take on it, your definition of it.
[A] When we think about ASO at Gummicube, it’s different from how most people see it. A lot of people think it’s just keyword updates, A/B tests, or even paid campaigns to boost downloads, but none of those are ASO on their own.
ASO is really about top-of-funnel acquisition and conversion in the store. You need keywords to get discovered, A/B testing to improve conversion, and paid campaigns to support organic performance. It’s not one thing in isolation; it’s combining all of them and learning from each to make the whole strategy work.
[Q] You talk about success. How do you measure success? What does that involve?
[A] There are a few ways to measure success. For metadata updates, the biggest one is tracking how your keyword rankings change before and after. But we really rely on Apple and Google’s native consoles to see if we’re getting discovered on more search terms, gaining more impressions or store visits, and whether that turns into more first-time installs.
You also have to reconcile that with paid data to understand what your true organic performance looks like. For mid-funnel activity, like redownloads from in-app events, attribution works differently.
To really measure success, you need an ASO software for keyword rankings, since Apple and Google don’t provide that data. Ultimately, the most important thing is to use Apple and Google as sources of truth, not download estimates.
[Q] Now on to the crux of the matter. We’re talking about paid campaigns for supporting organic paid. How how does that work?
[A] The first thing you have to do is get your store listing right — your product page, keywords, and metadata — so Apple and Google know what to index you for. If you launch paid campaigns without that, they’ll only work while you’re spending money and stop the moment you don’t. On Apple you declare keywords directly, and on Google it’s driven by your description, but if you don’t give the algorithm the right signals, your paid campaigns won’t be as effective.
So start with your ASO foundation, then run A/B tests to improve conversion — because better conversion means lower costs when you go paid. But it’s not just about getting a 5% lift and moving on; it’s about understanding why something worked and applying that to your paid strategy. Take what converts in organic, like messaging or keywords, and use it in your ads.
Paid campaigns also give you tap data, and taps are what drive organic ranking. The more users choose your app in search, the stronger the signal to Apple to rank you higher, and Apple Ads can directly support that by helping you win those taps and improve organic performance.
[Q] Let’s just dig a little deeper into Apple Ads then. How do Apple Ads work?
[A] When it comes to Apple Ads, search placements are the most important, but there are other options too — like appearing before search results, on other apps’ product pages, or in the “You May Also Like” section.
The big one outside of search is the “Today” tab and the “Apps” and “Games” tabs, which are great for brand exposure, but they’re not as directly tied to ASO as search ads.
All of these can drive quality traffic with a reasonable CPI, but users who actively search for your app, your brand, or a feature tend to be more valuable than someone just browsing the “Today” tab. That install volume still helps with category ranking and keyword indexing, but for improving organic performance more directly, search placements, combined with well-structured campaigns and ad groups, are the most effective approach.
How paid campaigns boost your ASO
Source: Business of Apps vis YouTube
[Q] What are you tips for structuring Apple Ads in a way that can best support organic?
[A] We see a wide range of Apple Ads setups when we start working with new partners. Sometimes it’s just one campaign with everything thrown into it, which is better than nothing, but not ideal.
The basic structure should include a discovery campaign using search match and broad match, a competitor group, a brand defense group, and feature-based keywords.
From there, depending on your budget and app, you may want multiple feature or competitor groups to get more clarity on performance. That structure lets you see, at a high level, how different areas perform.
The next level would be breaking features out even further, like separate ad groups. Apple’s Custom Product Pages let you match creatives to intent, which improves conversion. The biggest opportunity is building enough structure and differentiation to measure performance clearly and optimize creatives and keywords more effectively.
[Q] What about cannibalisation? Because that’s a subject that always comes up when you talk about combining paid and organic. What are your thoughts on that?
[A] Cannibalisation depends on how much paid you’ve run in the past. If you’re starting fresh, it’s easy to compare before and after by reconciling Apple Ads data with what you see in App Store Connect.
For brand campaigns, you can see how much organic drops once paid is turned on and estimate from there. If you already have campaigns live, you can test by turning them off and on, or even use another market as a proxy.
But the best indicator is share of voice reporting in Apple Ads. If you’re consistently at 90–100% on your brand terms, you’re likely cannibalising and can safely pull back. The 80–90% range is usually a safe zone, and even 70% can work depending on competition.
Share of voice also matters for feature keywords. If you’re only getting 10%, you’re not winning enough taps to move organic ranking. To use Apple Ads to boost ASO, you need strong share of voice, tap-through rates, and conversion to truly compete.
[Q] Can you give us some dos and don’ts for using Apple Search Ads?
[A] Don’t start backwards by running paid campaigns before your ASO foundation is in place. If you launch paid without solid metadata, keywords, and A/B testing, you miss a critical window when install velocity helps indexing. Get the foundation right first, then scale paid.
Also, don’t let your paid and organic teams operate in silos. Apple Ads can reveal issues and opportunities that don’t show up in App Store Connect, like strong installs but weak signups. That insight should feed directly into your ASO strategy, and what works organically should feed into paid.
Structurally, don’t run everything in one ad group. Use proper segmentation, negatives, and custom product pages. And keep an eye on share of voice using Apple’s reports, not just bid levels, to understand cannibalisation and competitiveness.
This episode of App Talks was created by Business of Apps and David Murphy for Gummicube. Find out more about the company on their website.
Watch the full video, embedded above, to discover all of David’s insights. You can also watch all episodes of App Talks here.
David’s responses have been shortened and slightly edited for clarity.
